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	<title>Comments for Got that New Package!</title>
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	<pubDate>Wed, 20 Aug 2008 03:04:04 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>Comment on Who the enemy is: Ep 4, Combat Jack Open thread by racymind</title>
		<link>http://newpackage.wordpress.com/2008/08/04/who-the-enemy-is-ep-4-combat-jack-open-thread/#comment-1634</link>
		<dc:creator>racymind</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 05:35:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newpackage.wordpress.com/?p=499#comment-1634</guid>
		<description>The training question, Lynette asks...I'll take a stab, I have been waaay too quiet. Remember in Ep.2 when they got shot up driving through the town, their first live action? Here's something about the aftermath of that in the book:

"All the Humvees in Bravo Company are riddled with bullet holes,  but Darnold is the only Marine who was hit. Counting the dozens of roulnds that went through sheet metal, tires, and rucksacks, the men can't believe they made it.  In retrospect the whole engagement was like one of those cheesy action movies in which the bad guys fire thousands of rounds that all narrowly miss the hero."

What sets these guys apart is that they have been trained so hard that they know exactly what to do in the face of sheer terror.  They know they are the best at killing, and don't define themselves any other way.  So getting a chance to actually kill is so affirming for them.  They got through that first firefight driving through the town because they can kill better than anyone, a difficult thing as it is, even while the bullets narrowly miss them.

Did you notice when the Iraqis in that town  in Ep. 2 fired at the Marine Humvees, they roughly stuck their guns over the roof of the cars and pulled the triggers, barely looking at where the gun was pointed.  The Iraqis were afraid to really expose themselves or aim their guns - they just kind of pointed and let Allah guide the bullets.  They sprayed a lot of lead, but didn't kill anybody,  not even Marines exposed in roofless Humvees.

The Marines are so cool that they aim and shoot and kill - and  these fuckers like to wait until they see your muzzle flash.  They let you have the first shot, so they can pinpoint you and kill you.  Even while the bullets are flying through the Humvees,  the Marines can load, aim, and shoot from muscle memory, not even really thinking about what they are doing.  Notice how the officers fire and miss, or overreact?  Notice how the RCT Marines blew up the hamlet outside the airfield while the Recon Marines assessed the situation accurately (but had to watch as RCT Marines destroyed the town).

There was in episode 3 the part where the Recon Marines were lined up outside the walled town, and they were fired upon.  No panic fire returned... the Recon Marines do not shoot until they see the muzzle flashes.  Then they kill without wasting ammo.

What sets the Recon Marines  apart, from what I can see, is that they look first, then shoot, and kill methodically.  Simple as it may sound, the other Marines or Army just don't do it as well, at least not by this point in the war.  True, the accuracy of their fire is the easy part to notice, but it is how they conduct themselves when it is time to kill or be killed - that is the part I see that shows how well they are trained.

Besides, if you were worried about your training, would you be doing a bad a capella version of "Tainted Love" as you roll through a hostile desert?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The training question, Lynette asks&#8230;I&#8217;ll take a stab, I have been waaay too quiet. Remember in Ep.2 when they got shot up driving through the town, their first live action? Here&#8217;s something about the aftermath of that in the book:</p>
<p>&#8220;All the Humvees in Bravo Company are riddled with bullet holes,  but Darnold is the only Marine who was hit. Counting the dozens of roulnds that went through sheet metal, tires, and rucksacks, the men can&#8217;t believe they made it.  In retrospect the whole engagement was like one of those cheesy action movies in which the bad guys fire thousands of rounds that all narrowly miss the hero.&#8221;</p>
<p>What sets these guys apart is that they have been trained so hard that they know exactly what to do in the face of sheer terror.  They know they are the best at killing, and don&#8217;t define themselves any other way.  So getting a chance to actually kill is so affirming for them.  They got through that first firefight driving through the town because they can kill better than anyone, a difficult thing as it is, even while the bullets narrowly miss them.</p>
<p>Did you notice when the Iraqis in that town  in Ep. 2 fired at the Marine Humvees, they roughly stuck their guns over the roof of the cars and pulled the triggers, barely looking at where the gun was pointed.  The Iraqis were afraid to really expose themselves or aim their guns - they just kind of pointed and let Allah guide the bullets.  They sprayed a lot of lead, but didn&#8217;t kill anybody,  not even Marines exposed in roofless Humvees.</p>
<p>The Marines are so cool that they aim and shoot and kill - and  these fuckers like to wait until they see your muzzle flash.  They let you have the first shot, so they can pinpoint you and kill you.  Even while the bullets are flying through the Humvees,  the Marines can load, aim, and shoot from muscle memory, not even really thinking about what they are doing.  Notice how the officers fire and miss, or overreact?  Notice how the RCT Marines blew up the hamlet outside the airfield while the Recon Marines assessed the situation accurately (but had to watch as RCT Marines destroyed the town).</p>
<p>There was in episode 3 the part where the Recon Marines were lined up outside the walled town, and they were fired upon.  No panic fire returned&#8230; the Recon Marines do not shoot until they see the muzzle flashes.  Then they kill without wasting ammo.</p>
<p>What sets the Recon Marines  apart, from what I can see, is that they look first, then shoot, and kill methodically.  Simple as it may sound, the other Marines or Army just don&#8217;t do it as well, at least not by this point in the war.  True, the accuracy of their fire is the easy part to notice, but it is how they conduct themselves when it is time to kill or be killed - that is the part I see that shows how well they are trained.</p>
<p>Besides, if you were worried about your training, would you be doing a bad a capella version of &#8220;Tainted Love&#8221; as you roll through a hostile desert?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Who the enemy is: Ep 4, Combat Jack Open thread by lynette</title>
		<link>http://newpackage.wordpress.com/2008/08/04/who-the-enemy-is-ep-4-combat-jack-open-thread/#comment-1633</link>
		<dc:creator>lynette</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 02:00:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newpackage.wordpress.com/?p=499#comment-1633</guid>
		<description>So after being disappointed again with the most recent episode  - I would have given up on the series if not for you know who - I am reading the rolling stone article by wright, maybe it's the first one of many, and it's terrific.  
Although it is mentioned in gk how well trained these guys are and how inappropriate this mission is for them it was not at all clear to me the extent of their training.  Frankly they seemed like green yahoos in that first training scene and we only ever see "handsome guy" training.  And just once, I think.

Even though we are starting the story in the middle and don't want long exposition, isn't there some way to convey this important point.  I admit that we see some evidence of their abilities - they are quite the snipers and I assumed that they were being wasted on useless missions - but didn't understand the depth of the clusterfuck.  This seems important.  As does all the goofing off and around they do needs to be compared to their real skills and training.  Pearson constantly saying he's a killing machine didn't convince me.

I also have trouble making out dialogue even after rewinding.  But somehow I don't think I'm missing anything.

By the way I thought Laura Lippman's new book was really good.  She can really turn a phrase.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So after being disappointed again with the most recent episode  - I would have given up on the series if not for you know who - I am reading the rolling stone article by wright, maybe it&#8217;s the first one of many, and it&#8217;s terrific.<br />
Although it is mentioned in gk how well trained these guys are and how inappropriate this mission is for them it was not at all clear to me the extent of their training.  Frankly they seemed like green yahoos in that first training scene and we only ever see &#8220;handsome guy&#8221; training.  And just once, I think.</p>
<p>Even though we are starting the story in the middle and don&#8217;t want long exposition, isn&#8217;t there some way to convey this important point.  I admit that we see some evidence of their abilities - they are quite the snipers and I assumed that they were being wasted on useless missions - but didn&#8217;t understand the depth of the clusterfuck.  This seems important.  As does all the goofing off and around they do needs to be compared to their real skills and training.  Pearson constantly saying he&#8217;s a killing machine didn&#8217;t convince me.</p>
<p>I also have trouble making out dialogue even after rewinding.  But somehow I don&#8217;t think I&#8217;m missing anything.</p>
<p>By the way I thought Laura Lippman&#8217;s new book was really good.  She can really turn a phrase.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The grooming standard. by Athenae</title>
		<link>http://newpackage.wordpress.com/2008/08/01/the-grooming-standard/#comment-1630</link>
		<dc:creator>Athenae</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Aug 2008 22:44:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newpackage.wordpress.com/?p=495#comment-1630</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;I like that, as well as the fact that Colbert tells Wright he wouldn’t be caught dead with most of these people if not for the fact that they work together…&lt;/i&gt;

Like Nancy, I keep seeing newsroom parallels: Two of the best people to be on a big breaking story with, two guys who would have your back at every step of the way, are two guys I couldn't STAND in my off-hours and I'm sure they'd say the same about me. Plenty of people who are good at their jobs are assholes. The reverse is true as well. 

I find GK, like John from Cinncinnati before it, gets better during the week after I see it, as I replay things in my head and think about them. Like The Wire, the tiny little moments are the ones that get you during your resting hours, when they just wander across your thoughts. 

A.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I like that, as well as the fact that Colbert tells Wright he wouldn’t be caught dead with most of these people if not for the fact that they work together…</i></p>
<p>Like Nancy, I keep seeing newsroom parallels: Two of the best people to be on a big breaking story with, two guys who would have your back at every step of the way, are two guys I couldn&#8217;t STAND in my off-hours and I&#8217;m sure they&#8217;d say the same about me. Plenty of people who are good at their jobs are assholes. The reverse is true as well. </p>
<p>I find GK, like John from Cinncinnati before it, gets better during the week after I see it, as I replay things in my head and think about them. Like The Wire, the tiny little moments are the ones that get you during your resting hours, when they just wander across your thoughts. </p>
<p>A.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The grooming standard. by virgotex</title>
		<link>http://newpackage.wordpress.com/2008/08/01/the-grooming-standard/#comment-1627</link>
		<dc:creator>virgotex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Aug 2008 17:50:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newpackage.wordpress.com/?p=495#comment-1627</guid>
		<description>I have had two friends (one just today) tell me that they just can't get into the show.  Neither had a problem with the issue of Iraq or violence, but both mentioned that it was hard for them to follow the plot and tell the characters apart.  In other words, the same issue many viewers had with The Wire:   You have to pay attention to it.  It's not entertainment, it's work. Needless to say, not much of an issue for most of us addicts.  I think it is most like the Wire in that respect, it's meaty and complex and I find that engrossing and worthwhile.  Also, like The Wire often did, even after multiple seasons, it sometimes seems more like a documentary than a drama. 

I keep seeing comments (at TWOP) and elsewhere, that the series has been popular with folks who have been in the military. I don't know how this is being quantified but I'll take it at face value.  

&lt;i&gt;throwing together people who normally wouldn’t encounter one another&lt;/i&gt;
In the book, we find out that Colbert's closest friend in the unit is Espera, even though the two of them are worlds apart. I like that, as well as the fact that Colbert tells Wright he wouldn't be caught dead with most of these people if not for the fact that they work together...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have had two friends (one just today) tell me that they just can&#8217;t get into the show.  Neither had a problem with the issue of Iraq or violence, but both mentioned that it was hard for them to follow the plot and tell the characters apart.  In other words, the same issue many viewers had with The Wire:   You have to pay attention to it.  It&#8217;s not entertainment, it&#8217;s work. Needless to say, not much of an issue for most of us addicts.  I think it is most like the Wire in that respect, it&#8217;s meaty and complex and I find that engrossing and worthwhile.  Also, like The Wire often did, even after multiple seasons, it sometimes seems more like a documentary than a drama. </p>
<p>I keep seeing comments (at TWOP) and elsewhere, that the series has been popular with folks who have been in the military. I don&#8217;t know how this is being quantified but I&#8217;ll take it at face value.  </p>
<p><i>throwing together people who normally wouldn’t encounter one another</i><br />
In the book, we find out that Colbert&#8217;s closest friend in the unit is Espera, even though the two of them are worlds apart. I like that, as well as the fact that Colbert tells Wright he wouldn&#8217;t be caught dead with most of these people if not for the fact that they work together&#8230;</p>
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		<title>Comment on Preliminary thoughts/open thread on &#8220;Screwby&#8221; by Sophmom</title>
		<link>http://newpackage.wordpress.com/2008/07/30/preliminary-thoughtsopen-thread-on-screwby/#comment-1626</link>
		<dc:creator>Sophmom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jul 2008 00:49:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newpackage.wordpress.com/?p=471#comment-1626</guid>
		<description>You've nailed it with "tasked with killing other humans," noting that it's "almost impossible to do it the 'right' way." I think it's simply true of war. My husband describes his experience in Vietnam as "turning against species."  We were raised on a steady stream of war glorification films. This work is about war.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;ve nailed it with &#8220;tasked with killing other humans,&#8221; noting that it&#8217;s &#8220;almost impossible to do it the &#8216;right&#8217; way.&#8221; I think it&#8217;s simply true of war. My husband describes his experience in Vietnam as &#8220;turning against species.&#8221;  We were raised on a steady stream of war glorification films. This work is about war.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Sir, why did you shoot the car? by virgotex</title>
		<link>http://newpackage.wordpress.com/2008/07/27/sir-why-did-you-shoot-the-car/#comment-1625</link>
		<dc:creator>virgotex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 17:24:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newpackage.wordpress.com/?p=459#comment-1625</guid>
		<description>You're not late- I just barely got the thing up there myself-I have to watch a couple of times, usually with captioning on, before i get it. 

I also admire Fick.  The relationship between Fick and Colbert is interesting. Fick is Colbert's superior but he depends on him for guidance because he's more experienced , and esp after Ep 3, it's obvious Colbert depends on Fick as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re not late- I just barely got the thing up there myself-I have to watch a couple of times, usually with captioning on, before i get it. </p>
<p>I also admire Fick.  The relationship between Fick and Colbert is interesting. Fick is Colbert&#8217;s superior but he depends on him for guidance because he&#8217;s more experienced , and esp after Ep 3, it&#8217;s obvious Colbert depends on Fick as well.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Sir, why did you shoot the car? by Athenae</title>
		<link>http://newpackage.wordpress.com/2008/07/27/sir-why-did-you-shoot-the-car/#comment-1624</link>
		<dc:creator>Athenae</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 14:44:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newpackage.wordpress.com/?p=459#comment-1624</guid>
		<description>There are, in fact, no limits to the Iceman's awesomeness. 

(Sorry I keep chiming in late, I don't get to see this until the umpteenth re-run as it inevitably conflicts with Mad Men, Bourdain or one of our other ongoing obsessions.) 

Seriously, my love for Iceman is approaching Lester Freemon levels. 

Ray, I continue to kind of love, too, because he's so reassuring. There's not a lot to figure out there, everything he thinks comes right out of his mouth. 

The show is getting kind of monotonous to me, but I think that's the point, it's monotonous for THEM, too. 

A.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are, in fact, no limits to the Iceman&#8217;s awesomeness. </p>
<p>(Sorry I keep chiming in late, I don&#8217;t get to see this until the umpteenth re-run as it inevitably conflicts with Mad Men, Bourdain or one of our other ongoing obsessions.) </p>
<p>Seriously, my love for Iceman is approaching Lester Freemon levels. </p>
<p>Ray, I continue to kind of love, too, because he&#8217;s so reassuring. There&#8217;s not a lot to figure out there, everything he thinks comes right out of his mouth. </p>
<p>The show is getting kind of monotonous to me, but I think that&#8217;s the point, it&#8217;s monotonous for THEM, too. </p>
<p>A.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The bridge by Sir, why did you shoot the car? &#171; Got that New Package!</title>
		<link>http://newpackage.wordpress.com/2008/07/20/the-bridge/#comment-1623</link>
		<dc:creator>Sir, why did you shoot the car? &#171; Got that New Package!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jul 2008 16:17:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newpackage.wordpress.com/?p=435#comment-1623</guid>
		<description>[...] are the biggest threat to cohesion.  The ones piloting that unified machine, the brain driving the body,  the officers — they are the ones in a position to really fuck things up.  And in this [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] are the biggest threat to cohesion.  The ones piloting that unified machine, the brain driving the body,  the officers — they are the ones in a position to really fuck things up.  And in this [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on The bridge by alli</title>
		<link>http://newpackage.wordpress.com/2008/07/20/the-bridge/#comment-1618</link>
		<dc:creator>alli</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jul 2008 23:54:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newpackage.wordpress.com/?p=435#comment-1618</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;perversely you will hear Marines like GK because they want people to remember that their real primary skill is “to kill people and break things — everything else is politics.”&lt;/i&gt;

My army buddy says the same thing.  They're not nation-builders, they're a fighting force.

VT, I think it is a very helpful frame - I've watched these first couple episodes with the "man vs institution" theme in my mind and had some scattered thoughts, all of which you pulled together very well in this post.

I'm having a hard time dealing with the bloodlust - but that's for another post, which I will work on for this week.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>perversely you will hear Marines like GK because they want people to remember that their real primary skill is “to kill people and break things — everything else is politics.”</i></p>
<p>My army buddy says the same thing.  They&#8217;re not nation-builders, they&#8217;re a fighting force.</p>
<p>VT, I think it is a very helpful frame - I&#8217;ve watched these first couple episodes with the &#8220;man vs institution&#8221; theme in my mind and had some scattered thoughts, all of which you pulled together very well in this post.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m having a hard time dealing with the bloodlust - but that&#8217;s for another post, which I will work on for this week.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The bridge by Jeff</title>
		<link>http://newpackage.wordpress.com/2008/07/20/the-bridge/#comment-1617</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jul 2008 23:17:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newpackage.wordpress.com/?p=435#comment-1617</guid>
		<description>Marine friends tell me that it took three full rotations to get the real command-grade officers sorted out and to weed out enough of the mid-level deadwood and non-coms to get "locked and loaded."  On the other hand, they say now they can take any unit in the Corps, send it in a month, and build a school, blow a bridge, or drop and do fifty, colonel to slick sleeve private.  They are itching to get sent to Afghanistan where they can (in their words) do it right from boots on to boots off.

They're very proud of their ability to do good civil affairs, but perversely you will hear Marines like GK because they want people to remember that their real primary skill is "to kill people and break things -- everything else is politics."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Marine friends tell me that it took three full rotations to get the real command-grade officers sorted out and to weed out enough of the mid-level deadwood and non-coms to get &#8220;locked and loaded.&#8221;  On the other hand, they say now they can take any unit in the Corps, send it in a month, and build a school, blow a bridge, or drop and do fifty, colonel to slick sleeve private.  They are itching to get sent to Afghanistan where they can (in their words) do it right from boots on to boots off.</p>
<p>They&#8217;re very proud of their ability to do good civil affairs, but perversely you will hear Marines like GK because they want people to remember that their real primary skill is &#8220;to kill people and break things &#8212; everything else is politics.&#8221;</p>
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